This is the first installment in an ongoing series I’m tongue-in-cheekédly calling “This just in”. Basically, I intend to write little vignettes about new-to-me thinkers, ideas, or schools of thought as I encounter them. Some real beginner’s mind shit.
In regard to this installment (and future ones too; I’m gonna write about psychology again): I want to make it super clear that I don’t have any formal training in psychology or any related field. I am a voracious yet lowly autodidact (and I’m sure it will show). Don’t try to tell me I gave you bad advice, because I am not giving you advice. These are my thoughts as they relate to my own experiences.
I found Riva Stoudt’s podcast, “A Therapist Can’t Say That”, the same way I find most important stuff: via a convoluted, circuitous quest for something that I would know when I found it. In this case, I was on the leg of my journey where I was looking for interviews with Dr. Karen J. Maroda1. I found and listened to several. Of course, these were all interviews on therapy podcasts which, if you aren’t familiar, are often stupid and bad.
Riva’s interview was something different. I noticed right away that she didn’t employ a therapist voice2. She was funny and human. She spoke like a grownup talking to a grownup. She had the telltale signs of a relational psychotherapist, and no trace of a love for manualized treatments, which made me feel at ease. She had the carriage of a serious person from a serious lineage of people who take the work seriously—warm, yes, but not touchy-feely. She also came to the interview with smart questions that had the timbre of deep, long consideration of the subject matter. Her interest clearly stretched way beyond having skimmed Dr. Maroda’s book and having found it intellectually stimulating. I listened raptly. Afterward I immediately subscribed to the podcast and began bingeing.
As the name of the show implies, Riva and her guests delve into topics that are underdiscussed or taboo among therapists. Just a few of the many topics covered are moral injury, “subsequent therapist syndrome”, the shakiness of neuroscientific explanations for psychological phenomena and the pitfalls of leaning too heavily on them, and, of course, sexual boundary violations.
I was a bit defensive when listening to the episode about the seemingly prevalent bias against exposure in trauma treatment. The past few years I’ve been reading the seminal literature of a few trendy somatic modalities (NARM and sensorimotor psychotherapy in particular) and I was totally sold. Part of the appeal was that they allow the client to avoid directly speaking or even thinking about the trauma and thereby avoid retraumatization. Of course what Riva and her guest pointed out is that 1) “retraumatization” really defies definition to the point where one wonders how it could even be a thing, and 2) avoidance is one of the cardinal symptoms of PTSD, so not speaking or thinking about the trauma in the therapy room actually colludes with the client’s symptoms.
OH! Duh! It is truly, truly remarkable that I have never come across these insights before. Part of it is probably that I am not a therapist, so I don’t have colleagues to hear such insights from. I’m very grateful to Riva for putting intradisciplinary dialogues out in the world. “A Therapist Can’t Say That”: the name is a reference to the taboos discussed in the show, yes, but also a nod to the fact that all therapy is happening behind closed doors, so only so much is said about it, even among colleagues.
As much as I like the interview style episodes, there are also plenty of monologue episodes. They’re usually a reflection on the preceding interview episodes, and are usually much shorter, but they pack a punch. Riva’s prose style is conversational and pleasing, and her essays are always incisive. You can tell she gives a shit, not only about Helping People or The Work or whatever, but also about being thoughtful and deliberate. Rare and admirable.
I’m grateful to have my curiosity piqued and my mind opened (and even changed) often by this show. Even if the podcast is supposed to be for-therapists-by-therapists, I’ve gotten a lot out of it, both intellectually and personally. A happy accident.
Karen Maroda is a psychoanalyst who has published not only plenty of academic articles, but also several books that are basically too edgy to be articles. She writes about transference, countertransference, and the psychological makeup of psychotherapists, which may not sound juicy and controversial, but it is. Her most recent title is “The Analyst’s Vulnerability: Impact on Theory and Practice”, and that’s the one I’ve read.)
The Therapist Voice. It’s a slow, quiet lilt which is very reminiscent of a house cat slowly stalking a chipmunk. It entails a lot of gentle “I’m listening” kinds of noises and a maternal tone. Most therapy clients I speak to seem to know it. Interestingly, when I invoke the concept to therapists, they don’t seem to know what I’m talking about. Creepy, honestly.